Referendum 71: Mathematical Certainty of Victory

Equality fails in one state; Jim Crow success in another

I suppose I should be grateful for whatever crumbs we can get.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même merde.

---

by: TechBear @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 12:46:41 PM CST

however you want to put it

It does help lgbt people and families for now.

---

by: tbaxfer @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 12:52:15 PM CST

[ Parent ]

it does help, but

second class citizenship is not acceptable.

People seem to forget that the GLBT community doesn't bring these initiatives/referendums to the ballot box. It's always the knee-jerk reaction from the fundies, mormons and catholics.

The game has become tiresome, and the only way to beat the bigots is either on a Federal level or to bankrupt them and their precious tax exemptions.

---

by: ggw59 @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 13:22:01 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Spare Us the Sour Grapes

This is far more than crumbs. It is full Civil Unions just like were established in Vermont in 2000. What do we have in Vermont now? "Anyone know what this is? Class? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone seen this before?" That's right we now have full marriage in Vermont. It was passed by a 2/3rds majority over the governor's veto. Think about what that means for a moment. No a simple majority, not a few here and there, 2/3rds of Vermont's elected representatives were willing to stand up for marriage equality a mere nine years after even giving Civil Unions were much more narrowly established and the marriage option could not even get out of committee.

What you dismiss as crumbs is a damn fine way of getting people comfortable with gays in relationships and eventually, when the sky does not fall, we get the full deal. In the meanwhile all those gays who'd otherwise be left out in the cold with nothing because some dumb fuck doesn't want want to compromise his ideological purity get as much of the privileges, rights, and responsibilities of marriage as the state can give them.

---

by: MtSherman @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 14:04:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

How about we ask Pam about "sour grapes"

Or any other person of color here on The Blend: should they have been content with "coloreds only" water fountains and "coloreds only" schools and "coloreds only" hotels because, hey, they were the beginning of full equality?

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même merde.

---

by: TechBear @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 15:06:49 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Well seeing as how

It's the choice between a colored fountain and not drinking, I'll take the patronizing sips to quench my thirst while we hammer home marriage first, but that's just me. I want to see measures, any measures wherever we can get them. I want the bigots to feel haunted, surrounded by fags. After 1 they cheered, they thought we'd go back in the closet and die, let's amp it up and remind them that we're going nowhere, they are.

---

by: Cerberus @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 15:41:50 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Or you could ask women in general.

Everybody has to start somewhere and until you can get a crowbar into the gap to pry the door open all the way, you have to make do with what you've got and that doesn't just go for people of color, but also women.  It's easy to sit here now and say 'we want full equality RIGHT NOW, dammit', but I'm telling you - even as someone who lives in Washington state - if you demand it that way when society is still uneasy/uncertain (depending on the state) about us, you will be refused.  Being the first with anything is scary, but it's just as scary to be the tenth or the twentieth.  

Personally, I don't give a shit about the word 'marriage' or what it stands for.  I'm an atheist, I don't care about that.  What I do care about is knowing that if I do have a person I love very much that they're cared for an ref 71 does that.  Is it marriage?  No.  But as long as the person I love is secure if something happens to me, you can call it whatever the hell you want.

"Heterosexuality is not normal, it's just common." - Dorothy Parker

---

by: RubyDynamite @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 19:23:03 PM CST

[ Parent ]

And therein lies the key to why our eqality is so far away

To put this as simply as I possibly can:

MARRIAGE IS A CIVIL INSTITUTION IN THE UNITED STATES.

Not religious. CIVIL. The one and only way to create a legal marriage in this country is to file the proper civil papers with the proper civil authorities, no mumbo-jumbo required.

When you say that, as an atheist, you don't give a shit about the word "marriage," you are saying that you do not give a shit about the wall of separation between church and state. You are saying that you do not give a shit if the Talibangelicals actually were to run this country and write and enforce laws in accordance with whatever they are holding sacred today. Is that really how you feel?

There are no laws regulating who can or cannot be baptized. There are no statutes governing the proper procedures for bar mitzvahs. There are legal perqs for being confirmed by a minister in the Apostolic Succession. The qualifications of candidates for ordination are entirely outside the scope of legislative action. Why? Because these are religious things.

There ARE laws regulating who can or cannot be married, there ARE statutes governing the proper procedures for marriage and there ARE legal perqs for being married. Why? Because marriage is NOT a religious thing.

Until this plain and simple fact sinks in, the religious bigots will continue to set the agenda, and by setting the agenda, win every single time.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même merde.

---

by: TechBear @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 20:41:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Okay, first off...

Stop freaking yelling.

Second of all: Do you think I'm that new?  That I don't know that marriage is a civil institution?  Really?  Patronize, much?

Third of all: I KNOW it's a civil institution.  But you know what?  Churches have been deputized by the state and society to be the purveyors of all things marriage-related, essentially.  It might be a civil process but in the eyes of MANY people - including the anti-R71 dicks - they think that marriage is a state-sanctioned religious rite because church is so very much a part of the ritual and tradition.  The waters have been hopelessly muddied.  Does that make it an official part of the civil process?  NO.  Because you can get married by a justice of the peace or at city hall or wherever else those types of things are done.

When I say I don't care about marriage, I'm referring to the religious connotations the word conjures.  Two atheists can be married and never have to set so much as a pinky toe inside a church.  

O AM AN ATHEIST.  Organized, dogmatic religion and everything to do with it are things to be done away with out of society as far as I'm concerned. Including the word MARRIAGE.  Which is why I say I don't give a shit about "marriage".

I don't give a shit if it's called marriage or domestic partnership.  In Washington, now, we have essentially the exact same thing as the hets do and I'm fine with that.  They can call it whatever they want to, so long as it stays what it is.  

"Heterosexuality is not normal, it's just common." - Dorothy Parker

---

by: RubyDynamite @ Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 00:26:35 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Thanks for the update

I'm too consumed with anger over Maine to feel much of WA state victory, but I applaud those especially Lurleen for superhuman effort to make this victory possible. A second loss I probably couldn't have beared.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

---

by: peteyPornpig @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 13:23:34 PM CST

I made the same comment....

"Woohoo, I'm so glad that 52 percent of my fellow voters in my state are extending to me something that has all of the rights but not the word marriage".  

That being said, as someone who is spiritually married and domestically partnered legally, I did vote approve R-71, as it is within my own best interests for the best protections, especially when traveling up and down the west coast states.  That, and the previous law did not allow name changes after a DP to be reissued (your card with your old name, stays there, they tell you to keep carrying your court order doc).

As for Maine, the reason why that happened was because the state has a "referendum" system that is opposite of Washington's.  I am willing to bet some may have voted "Yes" for gay marriage but should have voted no (never discount the ability of people to barely be able to read).

Anyway, thank you Lurleen for posting and keeping all of us in the loop.

---

by: Gray Coyote @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 16:14:52 PM CST

And just because WA has comprehensive DP now does not preclude marriage later

Who said civil rights have to happen now??

How do you think African Americans spent through the DECADES of American racial apartheid known as Jim Crow from the 1900s through the 1960s?

And even after de jure segregation was removed, de facto segregation remained, and in some areas, has RETURNED.

I think the LGBT activists who spit on civil unions/domestic partnerships are being completely unreasonable.

Just because the rest of us are accepting "half a loaf" now does NOT mean that we are not continuing to demand a full loaf later. But we have to EAT now, and half a loaf is better than none.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Mad Professah Lectures http://madprofessah.com
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell

---

by: Mad Professah @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 16:27:00 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You're reading more into my statement and missing some parts of it...

I am very well aware of the future plans of the marriage equality movement here.  I said "I am in a domestic partnership".  I was personally effected by the situation.  I personally convinced at least two dozen people in general on the street conversations plus the work water cooler who were on the fence or were rejecting to actually approving the referendum.  

I also am particularly affected because the Secretary of State refused to change my domestic partner certificate and wallet cards, as I changed my name after getting the domestic partnership.  Rather than just changing the registration, the SoS refused saying that they were not authorized by law to do that, and told me that my only choice is to dissolve the DP and re-establish it again.  My only alternative was to carry around my certified name change court order with me at all times, which is a piece of paper.

Section 71 of the new law fixes that problem.  Apparently I wasn't the only one complaining about it.

I want to make clear: I am not complaining that the law was passed or the fact that we settle for half a loaf.  I kept my mouth shut about my own misgivings for begging for separate but equal because getting myself, my husband the most protections.  I am pragmatic.   I would not be one of those morons who would vote REJECT because it isn't a marriage equality referendum.

Next is marriage equality.  ERW is opening up an office in Spokane (very smart move) to short up support.  We need Spokane County to be green in order to win......

---

by: Gray Coyote @ Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 02:09:33 AM CST

[ Parent ]

R-71 PASSED! Now it's 53-47%

At least some good news...

---

by: Kokas @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 18:46:33 PM CST

CELEBRATE!

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

---

by: peteyPornpig @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 18:49:55 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Finally

Now that my own state is at least safe for now, maybe I can relax for a few days. Let out those pent-up tears for Maine.

And then?

There's still a world that needs changing.

"Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion, you must set yourself on fire!"

---

by: Reiuji @ Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 19:15:35 PM CST

[ Parent ]