Open thread: NC wingnuts and health care - 'no pubic option'

Inferring that Prez is rolling over

I downloaded HR3200 and haven't read it, but I missed something.

But I thought this fight was ALL about public option.

Now the news shows are reporting that the administration is inferring that the public option is even optional in their eyes.

If the goal is to provide healthcare to the 40mil uninsured, wasn't that supposed to be done through the public option?

Maybe the MSM is misinterpreting what has been said.

As for those protesters: selfish people. They're scared that they won't be able to see their docs on the same day for the imaginary ills they have. They live in an imaginary world, and it's all about them. In the cartoon with the genie, greedy Daffy Duck said, "Mine-mine-mine!" and look what happened to him.

...Ready to Go!!

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by: Fired Up @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 06:46:39 AM CDT

What's the goal?

If the goal is to provide healthcare to the 40mil uninsured,

I always kinda thought the goal was to shield the healthcare industry from criticism while shoveling more public money in their direction to deny people care.

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by: M @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 13:11:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

After being bamboozled by a few hundred hired Republican hecklers Obama is in full retreat on health care.

 He's abandoning his health care "reforms" as fast as he abandoned us. But neither come close to the deadliness of his betrayal of GIs and civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan. They're dying because he's afraid of Halibuton, the rest of the Military Industrial Complex and the power of Big Oil.

He's the classic Clinton clone - a gutless wonder who makes promises, kisses babies and then stabs his constituents in the back. Bush had the same right wing policies and McCain would have too but with them all but a few dummies had that figured out beforehand - dummies in the LCR, twins of the dummies in the Stonewall Democrats.  

According to Sundays NY Times

The White House, facing increasing skepticism over President Obama's call for a public insurance plan to compete with the private sector, signaled Sunday that it was willing to compromise and would consider a proposal for a nonprofit health cooperative being developed in the Senate...
"The public option, whether we have it or we don't have it, is not the entirety of health care reform," the president said. "This is just one sliver of it, one aspect of it."

I think sliver is the operative word here and in any case calling it a 'public option' is a sleazy lie to hide the fact that it would have been administered by for-profit insurance companies and HMO's and preserved the obscene profits of Big Pharma. All of this flows directly from the $18.5 million dollars Obama got from the owners and managers of HMOs and his secret meetings with PhRMA President and CEO Billy Tauzin (4 meetings), h Karen Ignagni, president and chief executive officer of America's Health Insurance Plans (4 meetings), Richard Umbdenstock, President and CEO of the American Hospital Association (7 meetings), and with the AMAs President Dr. James Rohack (3 meetings).

Obama, mimicking Clinton, Cheney and Bush, refuses to comment on what he gave away and what he got paid for it. Déjà vu all over again, and again, and again.

Support the March on Washington.  

The looter rich much prefer working with Democrats like Obama and the Clintons - they're greedier, they fool more people and they're able to get away with a lot more than Republicans.  

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by: donal1944 @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 06:48:07 AM CDT

I don't believe he's abandoning anything.

On the contrary, I don't think he was ever committed to a public option but "adopted" it as a result of pressure from left-wing groups after the election.  During the campaign he repeatedly fielded his own health care reform plan, which basically would require everyone in the country to buy health insurance coverage from one of the existing insurance companies.  Which is to say, like the good corporate flunky he is, he wants to do everything he can to augment his employers' bottom line.  If he ever intended anything other than that, I'll eat his DOMA brief.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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by: QScribe @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 13:25:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Obama's "Public Option' always was a scam.

Medicare has arrangements with HMO's and insurance companies to administer its programs and many are driven to these plans by what appears to be a deliberate and well thought use of outrageous deductibles and co-pays and the prescription benefit donut.  

Obama's plan for a public option is not even as good as Medicare. It would've likely been administered by for-profits, even if, like Medicare, it's a federal program.


The looter rich much prefer working with Democrats like Obama and the Clintons - they're greedier, they fool more people and they're able to get away with a lot more than Republicans.  

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by: donal1944 @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 17:30:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

So

they're against urologists and gynecologists? What's up with that?

Cause any fool knows, a dog needs a home; a shelter from pigs on the wing

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by: QueerInSoCal @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 07:51:18 AM CDT

Take away their socialism

No more post office for you, asshole.
No more police - hire your own.
No more fire stations - what don't you have a hose?

But please, lock them in a room with Glen Beck...for eternity.

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by: Patrick @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 08:00:12 AM CDT

No police?

Old white people would go nuts over that - who else will they call at 10PM because the music is too loud nextdoor?

And then call the police again for the same reason an hour later.

And again.

And again.

Wasting taxpayer dollars - and again.  

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by: bluegrassfool @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 12:30:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And...

No more US Department of Agriculture. Inspect that meat packing plant yourself.
No more National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Air Bags? Na...

Dena

Cisgender. Because "Genetic" (or non) is so 2006.

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by: Denabeth @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 12:50:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm so tired.

I'm so tired of Democrats underestimating how willing and able the Republicans are at every turn to flat out lie and use fear to freak out stupid Americans who don't have the time or inclination to educate themselves about issues.  A recent Newsweek article stated that the White House was "suprised" at how vicious the opposition would be to the healthcare issue.  STUPID M-F*CK-C*$#S*DFSSLSL idiots!!!  I'm now completely a misanthrope for life.  There is no point any more in this country to have anything resembling logical, reasonable public discussion about anything.  The MSM doesn't help and is only interested in selling ads and getting viewership.  The Associated Press is the worst offender and repeats lies with no actual fact-checking.  No reads anything anymore.  It is 1984.  That is the world we live in.  I feel powerless to do anything about it.  

I'm so tired of white, privileged, well-meaning yet horribly stupid people who happen to be luckily currently employed and walk around saying, "I'm happy with my healthcare so why should I want to change anything?"  Well, let's just hope and pray you never lose your job or your employer doesn't suddenly decide not to offer healthcare because it's become too expensive, or you or your kid ACTUALLY GETS REALLY SICK and you actually have to USE your healthcare for more than your regular check up.  I just can't wait because statistics say that there is a pretty high chance people will become disabled or sick in their lifetime.  Idiots, every one.  

Most people in this country don't have a choice of doctor right now but you'd think they all had Dr. Mayberry on call 24/7 and they are screaming bloody murder that they might be forced to go see Dr. Chang or something.  Idiots, every one.  Most people have HMO coverage which doesn't allow ANY CHOICE in doctor or caregiver.  What gives?  People are the stupidest I've ever seen or heard in my life.  

Why hasn't Obama talked about the fact that private insurance companies WILL NOT and cannot be expected to offer insurance coverage to those who A. cannot pay premiums and B. have preexisting conditions?  If they did, they'd go out of business, obviously.  So that's why, stupid people, we need a gov't run healthcare option.  

This is an economic issue that is well-supported by intelligent weathly people who are seeing a pattern of rising healthcare costs that will bankrupt small businesses, inviduals (no matter how wealthy), and the government itself.  But no, too much logic there.  Too much thinking through the issues.  Too much smartness to ever make any sense.  The stupid Republicans just want power.  So they whip all their stupid followers into "death panel" frenzies so that they can what?  Win the midterms?  And then what?  They're going to have to do something about healthcare too......otherwise the country and all it's wealth will be bankrupted.  Stupid, stupid, stupid, inexplicably stupid people in this country.

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by: Narra @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 08:03:27 AM CDT

the White House was "suprised"

Every single argument that has been fielded against health care reform was easily predictable by anyone who knows the tactics always used by the right wing in this  country.  And I mean all of them, even the most extreme--death panels, forced abortion, all of them.  If Obama and his team didn't see them coming (and he obviously didn't or he would have framed the discussion in such a way as to forestall them), it's just one more indication that this man is nothing like the shrewd political operator were always being told he is.  And that he is probably not fit for the job.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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by: QScribe @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 13:34:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I know that the LGBT Community has alot on its plate....

But if anything right now we should be publiclly and loudly supporting Health Care Reform.  It really is a LGBT Issue.

I wrote a small post on it
http://www.back2stonewall.com/...

I wish more Blogs, Groups, and individuals would pick up on the fact that Health Care Reform will help so many in the LGBT Community

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by: Wolfie @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 08:31:15 AM CDT

But actual, effective health care reform

is not now on the table and has not been on the table since Obama won the Dem primary.  Any public health "option" will, under Obama, be run by the for-profit groups who insist that such an option by definition cannot be run well and who would profit most from the failure of such a system.  Genuine universal healthcare was never something close enough to reality to agitate for -- even the differences between Clinton and Obama in the primaries involved how to most efficiently shovel public money into the HMO furnace.  The only public-health "guarantee" offered by either was to make sure that HMOs would be "guaranteed" a profit from everyone, those who can afford to pay and those who can't.

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by: M @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 13:18:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Wake up Obama!

We need more stories like this making headlines, not this "death panel" stupidity.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32...

The biggest fear right now for Americans is losing their job.  The above article discusses what happens to your healthcare if you either quit or get fired......good luck people, especially if your mortgage is going to reset at the same time and your credit card company raises your minimum payment.......but no, we choose to be afraid of "death panels."  Sarah Palin should be put in jail for treason.

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by: Narra @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 08:39:02 AM CDT

No Public option? Status quo better

Without a public option, the status quo is really better. I have no desire to see mandatory tithing to the health insurance industry and the government can't afford it. Pass a really basic reform with some risk pooling, no pre-existing condition stuff, and see you in a generation when maybe the democrats can muster some guts.

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by: kathygnome @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 09:22:30 AM CDT

I am sick of angry white people

but I am not sure what to do about it. Today I am a very, very angry white person too.

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by: amyruth @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 10:16:56 AM CDT

Narra!

Narra, you pretty much summed up my feelings. I am having a hard time dealing with my own anger and misanthropy today. I am angry that stupid, ignorant wingnuts get to set the "tone" for this "debate." Yes, scare quotes abound in this brave new "market-driven solutions" world.

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by: amyruth @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 10:20:31 AM CDT

the medium and the message

I rather liked some of the other signs in the N&O album. "Ignorant people vote!" was a good one, as was "If you think healthcare is expensive now, just wait!" Judging by how healthcare has gone up since the last reform failed in 1993, they're right about that. If this reform fails, it will be.

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by: coram nobis @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 14:02:53 PM CDT

Well there goes my taxpayer funded Brazilian

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 22:12:10 PM CDT

Well there goes my taxpayer funded Brazilian

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 22:12:11 PM CDT

Pam, did you find the Flashdance locations?

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 23:24:52 PM CDT

odd vibe

I think I'll be sitting quietly on an open thread with videos for awhile.
This seems fitting
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Aug 17, 2009 at 23:29:57 PM CDT

I think Foofy caught the vibe

I just took him out on a leash for his last walk of the night,  and he bounded out at something near our porch. Knowing the variety of CREATURES of the NIGHT here, it's such a joy when he wants to chase something in the dark. Didn't see any feral cat, so it's probably a possom or armadillo. Skunks aren't unheard of either, and racoons are up at a Kwik Store every night, where they put out cat food.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 00:58:57 AM CDT

[ Parent ]