IL: Cook County jury acquits man on gay panic defense - he stabbed victim 61 times

I just posted this as a diary

61? Really? I'm sure that final sexual advance is what did him in. You know, the advance that came after the 60th stab.

I guess this means that if we murder someone that is straight then we would have a "straight-panic defense," right? Can we introduce the "Talibangelical-panic defense" if we decide to murder an "ex-gay" ministry member?

This is so un-effing-believeable!!!!!!!! This was nothing short of a hate crime!

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." ~~~ Thomas Jefferson

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by: SD_Dave @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 12:00:20 PM CDT

I will pray for Mr. Biedermann

I will pray that Mr. Biedermann doesn't meet a violent and painful death in the near future.

Liz

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. -- John F. Kennedy (inspired by Dante's Inferno)

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by: oldbrit @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 12:05:04 PM CDT

Perhaps this sounds a bit politically incorrect but...

Let's say the defendant was a straight woman who attacked and killed a straight man who did to her what Hauser allegedly did to Biedermann.  People would be applauding her for standing up for herself and going after her attacker.

How many people thought Lorena Bobbit was a hero?  She wasn't attacked by her husband, but she was sick of the way he was treating her.

How often do we see on television and in the movies a woman threatening to kick the crap out of some guy who makes unwanted sexual advances or just pisses her off?  We laugh and hoot and applaud.  You go girl!

On The Golden Girls, Blanche told a story about a waiter who made a pass at her.  She thought he was out of line and poured hot soup down his pants.  (Uproarious laughter from the audience)

On Everybody Loves Raymond, Deborah and Raymond were fighting about something.  Raymond said something that just pushed Deborah's buttons and she pushed him into a bookcase. (Some laughter and chuckling from the audience)

Now, with that said...

As a gay man, I am completely against the whole gay panic defense.  I think it is ridiculous.  Is 61 stab wounds a bit much?  Yeah.  But I wasn't there and neither was anyone else but the two men.  Can any of us say with certainty how we would react if in the same situation.

An unwanted sexual assault is an unwanted sexual assault no matter who the victim or the assailant are.  If someone is attacking you, or threatening to attack you, you have the right to fight back.  

We have to stop saying it is okay for some people to fight back against sexual assaults or come ons, but not others.  It really is a bit sexist.  It's like we are saying, "You're a big, tough man. You should just get over it when a guy makes a verbal or even a physical pass at you. Politely decline the advance and then walk away."

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by: stojef @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 12:27:08 PM CDT

that assumes that

Biedermann is telling the truth. He may be, but perhaps not. No one else was there to know if it was actually an attempted rape. Countless times women have not been believed when they've testified in court against her rapist, let alone if he was dead. The composition of the jury makes a big difference. It would be interesting to know the gender split in this case.

To say, however, that using a gay panic excuse didn't aid him in his defense, given there was no counter testimony, is unlikely. The fact is that it still works quite well.  

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by: Pam Spaulding @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 12:44:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Can any of us say with certainty how we would react if in the same situation. "

In a word, yes.

At a party just this past weekend, a somewhat inebriated straight woman hit on me. Repeatedly.  She actually had the gall to tell me she was "turned on" by the neck brace I have to wear.  She got physically aggressive with me (not a good idea with a disabled person, need I say?) and kept at it despite my repeated refusals to respond to her attentions.

Did I slit her throat?  Punch her out?  Kick her to a bloody pulp?  Stab her 61 times?  No.  I caught the attention of our host, explained what was happening, and asked him to keep her away from me.  Period.  And he was only too happy to do it.

Anyone who can't think of a way to rebuff unwelcome advances except with violence is intellectually and morally defective, to put it mildly.

Cynic, n.  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.  
-Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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by: QScribe @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 13:21:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not the same

I'm sorry but being aggressively hit on at a party is not the same as waking up alone on someone's couch with a knife to your neck.

You did the right thing in telling your host.  I'm a firm believer that if woman is going after a man, a man has a responsibility to try to stop his aggressor in the most non-violent way possible, whether it be getting help (like in your case, you had the luxury) or somehow restraining his aggressor - like grabbing her arms or hands to keep her from hitting you - before resorting to a physical altercation.

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by: stojef @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 13:30:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm having a bit trouble understanding the "gay panic" of the 1st case

Maybe it's just me but it sounds like he's defending himself from armed sexual assault.  I don't think this one should be filed in the "gay panic".  I think it's unfair to the cases of real gay panic.

As far as overkill?  Probably but honestly I've never been inebriated and woke up to a sword at my neck and stomach with a man threatening to rape me.  I think my reaction would be somewhat violent as well.

Also let's also figure out some ages and relative strengths.  The defendant also didn't specify anything about gayness or being scared of being cornholed, but that it was simply self-defense.  Additional facts elucidating these things would also help in determining whether this is a better case for gay panic or not.

Now, the second case is a clear cut case of gay panic, most likely from a closet case, hooking up and getting scared.

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by: JBravoEcho09 @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 15:49:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I looks like the standard "gay panic" case...

because that's how "gay panic" works as a defense -- not "I killed him because he was gay", but "we all know he was gay, and we all know that gay men are all rapists, so it any account of sexual assault (or attempted sexual assault) as an excuse for killing a gay man must be true."  In non-gay-panic versions of the case, there's some investigation into what the person who was killed was like, whether they had a history of sexual coercion, felt entitled to sex, etc.  In the "gay panic" version, the victim's sexual orientation is itself taken as evidence that sexual assault must have occurred.

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by: M @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 20:49:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

unwanted advances?

So, the next time a straight guy makes a "move" on me (female), I should stab him 61 times? It should be defensible because it's an unwanted advance, after all. Women are expected to put up with unwanted advances and just brush it off. Why can't these gay panic guys deal with it likewise?

It may be the purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.

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by: sandushinka @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 12:29:54 PM CDT

There was definitely anti-gay hate involved

But if the events occurred as Biedermann claims, he would have been justified in killing Michael in self-defense--assuming Michael attacked him with the sword and dagger. What I don't understand is why Biedermann would say he was defending himself from "unwanted sexual advance" when, according to his story, he was actually defending himself from assault with a deadly weapon.

I mean, if he was more concerned about a sexual advance then he was about being stabbed in the gut with a dagger, either he's loony or his version of events is suspect.

Tax the Christian Taliban!

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by: Wolfgang @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 12:32:47 PM CDT

This horror will end...

...sometime after we stop electing people who declare that "God is in the mix" in their defense of opposing any gay civil right, or employ certified religio homophobes to attract homophobic voters.

...sometime after we stop believing in a President who elevates a preacher who opposes gay clery and equates being gay with pedophilia to the equivalent of First Pastor by inviting him to pray at his inauguration and then, six months later, says that he has to "wrestle" between his "faith" and his concern for gays.

The horror wouldn't end immediately after those two things, but they would be a start.

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by: Michael Bedwell @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 12:38:19 PM CDT

The magic words for the jury?

Before he passed out, Biedermann testified, he and Hauser were drinking wine and talking, mostly about sports, when Hauser asked Biedermann if he liked pornography and then said he had "kiddie porn." http://www.dailyherald.com/sto...

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by: Pollyanna @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 13:11:57 PM CDT

And the jury completely ignored.....

........Another Hoffman Estates Police officer, Jason Currie, testified Biedermann never mentioned an attempted sexual assault while they were at the hospital.

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." ~~~ Thomas Jefferson

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by: SD_Dave @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 17:02:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What I think......

........happened is that he blew the Hauser and then thought that Hauser might tell someone about the experience he then all of the sudden Biedermann got spooked.

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." ~~~ Thomas Jefferson

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by: SD_Dave @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 17:05:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

With this level of alcohol intoxication

Toxicology reports indicated Hauser had a blood-alcohol content of 0.277 and Biedermann had a BAC of 0.226. http://www.dailyherald.com/sto...

it's a wonder they both didn't just pass out.

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by: Pollyanna @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 18:17:31 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This all has a very familiar ring to it

As I point out HERE.

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by: David Ehrenstein @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 16:28:57 PM CDT

sexual assault

I was molested by someone I shouldn't have trusted and if I had the chance I would have bashed his skull in.  I went to sleep in a bed by myself and woke up with him in with me and doing things, I kicked him back and off of me and went in the bathroom and locked the door and then showered because I had to get the feel of him off my skin.

If I wasn't in so much shock and not thinking at all I might have done what I could to put him down, I still today wish I had done something.

The fact that he was gay was irrelevant, he was sexually assaulting me and that in itself would be have been enough to defend myself, and yea, if I had been able to think enough to do something I'm sure I wasn't thinking clearly enough to stop with one or two hits.

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by: Rifkinn @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 17:01:41 PM CDT

We'll never know all the details of this crime

It fits the pattern of OVERKILL, which occurs in most gay Hate Crimes.

I'm waiting for a clear case of hetero-hate, with multiple eye witnesses, where the attacker gets a bullet between their eyes.

"race, taste. and History finally overcome....and you ain't there"
by Tony Kushner

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by: peteyPornpig @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 17:11:18 PM CDT

Question?

So, if I were to be freaked out because a straight woman made a sexual advance at me, and I had a moment (well, however long it takes me to stab her 61 times) and had a hetero "panic" moment, I could get away with murder....

WHAT A LAME LAME DECISION BY THIS CLUELESS JURY.

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by: cubbie @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 18:32:17 PM CDT

The threshold was 1st degree murder or nothing

The jury could only convict on first degree murder or simply acquit.

If it's self defense, it's not first degree murder. That was the strategy the defense employed, they gambled and won.

And I agree with the verdict.

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by: JJ in Chicago @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 20:22:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The verdict , ,,we

then, the next time some hag comes after me sexually, I will stab her to death and then claim self defense.....  

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by: cubbie @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 10:27:48 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Nobody in Chicago is calling it "gay panic" defense

Chicago is in Cook County.

I've not read anywhere or gotten any action alert email condemning the defense or referring to it as "gay panic".

The gay activists aren't touching this one.

The jury was allowed only to convict on 1st degree murder, or acquit.

According to reports here, the man who was killed threatened to rape and kill the other guy.

As I read the story I felt the self defense was justified.  Sure, stabbing someone 61 times is a lot, but it's better than having the aggressor rape and kill you instead.

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by: JJ in Chicago @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 20:19:59 PM CDT

The trouble is that

juries are quite willing to believe any straight man who kills a gay man and claims that there was a threat of sexual assault.  The dead person's sexual orientation as taken as sufficient evidence to assume that sexual assault or attempted sexual assault must have occurred.  It's possible that the prosecution in this case didn't do enough to challenge this defense (see the comment above about the sexual assault claims only materializing later); it's also true that there was a sexual assault involved.  In either case, the verdict would be correct -- but from the amount of information we've been given, we can't rule out the usual "gay panic" dynamic.

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by: M @ Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 20:54:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think there are multiple issues muddying this case.

First of all, if it actually happened as Biederman stated, then it was an attempted rape.  All bets are off at that time, I can see someone reacting very violently.  I have a dagger hidden by my bed for just such occasions.

That said, I  doubt it happened as he testified.  I have a deep suspicion that he and his lawyer played on images of "menacing gay rapists" to disguise a violent hate crime.

We will see this again.

Hate stops a beating heart.

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by: KarenS @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 09:42:20 AM CDT